“I don’t eat meat.”
“I remember."
“But I won’t glare at you if you do eat it.”
“And I do.”
“I don’t like lies.”
“Duly noted.”
“I don’t intend on telling any, and you’d better not either.”
“But what if you don’t catch me?”
“Is that a joke?”
"Yes.”
“Warn me next time.”
-Chapter 30, Part I
Love,
Jules
Dayyyum. This girl take no bullshit.
ReplyDeleteThis will be fun *eats popcorn*
I am actually looking forward to this James/Carlotta business. It's fine cause I know you're not gonna go suddenly like actually I won't ship LJ in my fan fic EVEN THOUGH IT IS CRUCIAL TO HARRY POTTER. What twats. Looking forward to it though. It will be appropriately dramatic and fun and then eventually lily and James will make out and I'll be like aww yeah, TAKE YOUR TOP OFF.
ReplyDelete... Who is this convo between? Carlotta, if I recall correctly, is vegetarian, no? So this is J/C banter?
ReplyDeleteOh wait, I just remembered Adam is vegetarian as well... so it might be him and Marlene. Or Prudence...
ReplyDeleteThis is a really weird conversation if it is Carlotta.
ReplyDelete1. Because she did tell a lie about Shelley... at least a lie of omission
2.She is usually a lot more carefree.
3. "Is that a joke"/ "Warn me next time" Thats freakish.
but still can't wait to read it!!! :)
Adam is only a vegetarian some of the time though, isn't he? Or was that someone else?
ReplyDeleteThe first thing I thought of was Carlotta and Lily, though I'm not entirely sure why. Lily says "Duly noted" the most, I think. And Carlotta is the only strict vegetarian that I can recall.
But still, it seems to serious to be Carlotta, like Lindsay said, though if this follows the "whoring bitch" conversation, Carlotta might be a little more uptight.
I don't know. I want this chapter pronto.
But no pressure, of course. XD
^^ No I think it could be Carlotta. It could also be Adam and Marlene - Idk, but I don't think there's anything to indicate otherwise. And Carlotta IS a very honest and up-front person; I can imagine her saying "I don't like lies" because I imagine that's true. Yes, she did technically lie about Shelley not fancying him, but I think that was an exception, and that it's something she doesn't normally do.
ReplyDeleteBut then again it could be Adam and Marlene talking. Idk, but there's nothing to rule out either.
I think it must be Carlotta talking. If it's Adam, I doubt he would have to remind Marlene, or that she'd be able to give such flippant replies under the circumstances.
ReplyDeleteAnd the fact that it's from part 1 "It began with a Kiss" - which I am almost sure is from James' perspective (as it matches from the beginning of sixth year where 'It began with a kiss' was from Lily's perspective).
The above converstaion made me go back and read when Carlotta 'lied' about Shelley liking James. And, looking for it, I came across an earlier passage in the chapter:
ReplyDelete"Twice now, Carlotta had been sorely tempted to kiss James Potter. The fact that she hadn't seemed to her to completely contradict all logic; it went against the very fiber of her being. Urges were not something to be restrained.
The only reason she had not kissed James was Shelley.
Sweet, devoted Shelley; Shelley, who would stand by her no matter what anyone else thought of her. Shelley, who didn't think she was a slag at all... who idolized her best friend, even when Carlotta knew that she did not deserve it. Shelley, who had been unwaveringly in love with James Potter since they were eleven.
Carlotta's life had for many years consisted of two main loyalties: her best friend's wants and her own personal desires. Until now, the two had never conflicted, and, if someone had asked her, Carlotta would have admitted that she didn't know which side would win out."
^ This got me wondering about something. So I have a question, Jules: if Shelley has liked James since first year, how did she react when James and Carlotta first kissed? Back in fourth year, I'm talking about. At first I thought, 'Oh, Shelley probably doesn't know about that kiss' but then I remembered a conversation where Carlotta mentioned that James wa\s a good kisser in front of Shelley, so now I'm just wondering :)
^I agree. Plus, the statement "I remember" would make much more sense coming from James than it would Prudence. James/Sirius/Lily did all that legwork pertaining to the welcoming feast and vegetarians.
ReplyDeleteand the "But what if you don't catch me?" sounds very James to me :)
Could totally be wrong, but if this is J/C, then I'm even MORE excited for their relationship. I think they'll have a great dynamic. + cause all that Lily angst..which makes me wonder:
Jules, will everyone be completely oblivious to Lily's angsting? For some reason, I imagine that she'll be good at hiding it, but Donna will be the first to catch on...
This very much feels like a James/Carlotta scene... it makes sense that she's more serious... They're trying the real relationship thing after all.
ReplyDeleteI am looking forward to this scene!
NO MORE SPOILERS FOR AT least 3 DAYS. Well, for me. I'm gonna try make my eyes skip these.
ReplyDeleteOoh, I'm pretty sure this is between James and Carlotta. Also I think in the very beginning of the story it says that Carlotta never lies, and when she did lie to Shelley she felt really really bad. So it's probably Carlotta, and James because of the whole joking part.
ReplyDeleteI can't wait to see them together at school. I wonder what Carlotta is implying with the lying? Is that random? Or did she mean something by it? Like Lily? Or something else... Also that sucks for James because he's going to have to lie anyways about the whole werewolf thing. But I bet he won't feel bad about it.
Ahhreelmonsters or Kristelle whichever you prefer
I think it's def a J/C conversation. It doesn't surprise me that she's getting a tad assertive with James.
ReplyDelete"warn me next time." *slaps head* oh James, I don't think she's going to be as fun you thought she was going to be.... outside of the bedroom at least.
"I don't like lies." - except when they benefit her, I suppose. Ok about to rant for a minute. Carlotta didn't lie by omission. If she said "Shelley doesn't hate you" and left it at that, then it would be an omission.
She said '"Shelley's just shy," Carlotta said instead. "Honestly, I don't think she's granted you enough thought to dislike you."' That's a bold face lie. She lied, not to protect a friend or avoid a topic she wasn't ready to discuss (which, to me, are excusable), she lied in order to further her relationship with James.
Carlotta is a very interesting character but a pretty sucky human being. IMO
To be honest... I feel bad for Carlotta about the thing with Shelley. If she told James about Shelley he wouldn't have started something with her. Carlotta will end up without James in the long run and also without her best friend, because said friend had a silly crush on James. And someone else pointed out... Carlotta has snogged James before... so maybe Shelley shouldn't act like it's te end of the world (assuming the other excerpt was her).
ReplyDeleteI do fear most of you won't agree with me, but I suppose I relate to why Carlotta ommited to tell about Shelley.
^hmm.. well, personally I don't feel bad for Carlotta, because although you and I know it is a silly crush and she will get over it.. remember that Shelley thinks she's in love. As far as she's concerned she's been deeply inlove with James since first year.
ReplyDeleteWhether that's true or not is irrelevant. And there's also the fact that Carlotta's always over shined her in anyway. That's starting to get to her.
And please, c'mon the girl's never dated Anyone, Ever, and the first boy she does date is her best mate's Love Interest? That's way, wayyy below the belt. Carlotta could have any guy she wants (('ceptFrankapparently)) and she chose JAMES. That's hard hitting.
And she's kept it secret from Shelley until this chapter. She had time to mention it, and she hasn't ((at least, I doubt she has)). I wouldn't be very happy with my best friend if she did that.
So yeh, I see how you're smart with your empathy, but I can totally understand why Shelley would/will completely hate her. There's a line, an unwritten rule, and Carlotta broke it.
Wow. That was a freaking epic paragraph! :-))
Happy Thursday Everyone!
^ "if she told James about Shelley he wouldn't have started anything with her"
ReplyDeleteI think that's the point anon 9:44 is trying to make. Let's just change this around for a minute. What if Sirius had starting going out with Lily in 6th year before James had made any real progress and he led lily to believe that James didnt have feelings for her. What if Sirius didn't tell James about it and James found out by seeing it for himself. Would you relate to Sirius or would you think he's a piece of ****? Personally, I would think the latter. But it doesn't matter because SIRIUS WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO HIS BEST FRIEND.
Yes, in the long run it sucks for Carlotta because she loses her best friend over short lived relationship but that was her choice. You reap what you sow. She knew what it would mean but she picked "her own personal desires". -that's just a nice way of saying self absorbed narcissist.
Justine
aaaaand, in the midst of writing my long blundering rant, Charlie summed up I think much more eloquently :)
ReplyDeleteJustine
A>
ReplyDeleteI like this excerpt because it's all dialogue, so it can be interpreted several different ways.
B>
I think both opinions on Carlotta are valid, and the Sirius/Lily/James comparison is also rather apt. However, I'll be interested if anybody's sympathies change throughout the course of this plot line =P
I know this is utter bollocks, but for some reason I keep thinking that Shelly will start dating Peter. Or they'll become good mates & then the two of them get cornered into that death eater nonsense together. I'm probably losing my marbles though.
ReplyDeleteJules,
ReplyDeleteThe idea that sympathies could change in Carlotta favor in the next few chapters (seems unlikely in my case but we'll see) sounds really, really exciting. Because that sounds like there's a whole lot of Carlotta-destroying-awesomeness taking place. I'm really interested to see how far will Shelley take this. We haven't seen a whole lot of her personality besides mooning over James.
I'm also kind of wondering what James' reaction is going to be if he finds out why exactly Shelley and Carlotta are at war with each other. If he would feel a kind of kinship with Shelley (wanting someone you cant have) or if he'll stand back and not judge like he did with the whole Alice/frank/Carlotta drama.
Justine
Yeah I agree with Charlie and Justine.
ReplyDelete@ 10:05: Imagine if your best friend started going out with the guy you were in love with. Would you forgive her? And her reason for lying about Shelley - that she wouldn't have a shot with James if he knew - is a really weak argument IMO. In fact, I think it makes it a little bit worse: not only is there betrayal on the Shelley front, but dishonesty and deceit with James. A double-whammy.
If Carlotta really, really loved James, then that would be one thing (still IMO not the right thing to do, but she would be choosing her love for James over her love for Shelley - it would be a risk on her part, but it wouuld be understandable at least). But Carlotta is not in love with him - she fancies him a bit, and that is all. And whatever feelings she has, they are recent and they are *not* love. She is choosing something unimportant, something she knows will probably not last (it seems more like an experiment to her than aything else: "I'm a girl who will try anything once.I suppose that should apply to an actual relationship, too"). She is ultimately choosing a guy - who she could easily live without and soon forget - over Shelley.
I think she deserves everything she is about to get.
And, no. No matter what happens, I won't change my mind about Carlotta. In fact, I will thoroughly enjoy every second of her misery.
@ 8:32: I'm also curious about how Shelley first took the news of the first James/Carlotta kiss. I can't imagine she was okay with it at the time.
"In fact, I will thoroughly enjoy every second of her misery."
ReplyDeleteDitto. And I'm hoping there will be lots and lots of it :)
10:05 - you're supposed to stay away from your friends' crushes. It's like the first rule of friendship. If she can't follow that, then clearly she doesn't deserve said friendship.
"Carlotta's life had for many years consisted of two main loyalties: her best friend's wants and her own personal desires. Until now, the two had never conflicted, and, if someone had asked her, Carlotta would have admitted that she didn't know which side would win out."
^ It's the first time that her friendship with Carlotta is being tested - the first sacrifice she has ever had to make for Shelley. And she fails and does what she wants, totally disregarding Shelley's feelings. She knows full well that she is sacrificing her friendship with Shelley for James - so really it's impossible to argue in her defence.
My perspective seems to be a little different. I'm not excusing Carlotta's choices or defending them, but to me it seems as though she doesn't fully understand what she's doing. Hmm... let me rephrase that: she doesn't recognize the consequences of her actions.
ReplyDeletePoint 1: Carlotta's only ever had one friend. She puts a lot of people off; not many people are friends with her. And the one friend she does have is a bit dull and exists more for Carlotta's benefit than a mutual relationship. It's fair to say she's never lost a friend before.
Point 2: Carlotta has never been rejected. True, Frank turned her down eventually, but on the whole when Carlotta wants something she usually gets it. Working for something she wants isn't an actualized concept for her.
With these points in mind, it's safe to assume Carlotta doesn't know how much it hurts to lose someone close to her. Since she's never experienced anything like it, I imagine the pain will be more than she expects - and probably more than she can handle.
That being said, I [i]do[/i] think she deserves what comes her way. I just feel sorry that she has no idea what that is.
Fuck, how do you italicize again?
ReplyDeletedo ..
ReplyDeleteI think < i > < /i >
i can imagine james being pretty pissed at carlotta for betraying her friend.
ReplyDeleteBUT if everyone turns on carlotta, i feel like that'll drive j/c closer.
i can't imagine (gryffindor)james joining the mob against his girlfriend even if she continues to fuck up in their relationship. this is guy who told her she wasn't a slag even though she obviously is.
I think I agree with Todd for the most part.
ReplyDeleteCarlotta has sort of lived in her own world, and because she is beautiful and interesting, she can do that. She's so used to people either loving her or being jealous of her that she's never really had much opportunity to experience anything else. She's never let anyone down before, because she is (more or less) perfect. I doubt the concept of disappointing Shelley has ever even crossed her mind because all she has ever known is that people would fight each other just to kiss the ground she's walked on.
Yes, she knows that Shelley "loves" James, but as she has said time and time again, Carlotta doesn't believe in love. She thinks that what Shelley feels for James is meaningless because love doesn't exist to her.
Though once she loses Shelley, I imagine that Carlotta will learn that love does exist, even if it's not in the form she originally thought, and she will no longer have that love/admiration/adoration from her bests friend, and I think it will leave Carlotta emptier than she thought possible.
To love is to destroy, you know. ;)
12:23- really good point about this being the first time her friendship being tested and yes, she failed.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason why I feel so strongly about this is because, to me, shelley's friendship was the last thing Carlotta had left. I disagree with her smug, self absorbed view of life but having a best friend who stuck by her and wasn't as glamourous was a redeeming characteristic IMO. I thought it showed kindness and loyalty but really, Shelley was just an accessory easily discarded.
I can only hope that she will learn a big lesson from all this. However I thought the same thing after the Alice/frank drama and apparently, she hasn't.
Justine
And as usual, Kayla proves to be more eloquent than me. Thanks for translating my jumbled mess of an explanation, darling.
ReplyDeleteAnytime. (:
ReplyDeleteChicks before dicks. Those are just like, the rules of feminism!
ReplyDelete@Kayla: TMI reference--ver nice ;)
JULES I have a question for you! I know you have your favorites section, but are there any other J/L stories you'd recommend? I love yours and I know you have good judgment and whatnot so I was just wondering what stories (besides the ones on your favorites) you enjoy?
ReplyDelete"To love is to destroy, you know. ;)"
ReplyDeleteTMI/CoB reference? If so, Kayla you just earned Hufflepuff 50 points.
^^Kayla you're a Hufflepuff? Interesting :) Now I'm wondering, what house is everyone else in?
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm a Ravenclaw.
-Sara
I thought I would be a Ravenclaw until I learned how they have to get into their common room, then I was like f*ck that, I suck at riddles! So....now I don't know. But I still get Ravenclaw when I take those quiz thingys ;)
ReplyDeleteHufflepuff FTW. Hell yes I'm a Hufflepuff. (We're excellent finders, have you heard?)
ReplyDeleteAnd I will take those 50 points Bree! Haha.
I was in ravenclaw as well until I read about the riddle thing in deathly hallows. Not only becuase I suck at riddles but it's pretty shoddy security if you ask me. So, I'm in gryffindor now...because everyone who looks like a good guy goes into gryffindor, everyone who looks like a bad guy goes into slytherin, and the other two can go wherever the hell they want, I don't care:p
ReplyDeleteJustine
Gryffindor is still gonna win the House Cup, though =P
ReplyDeleteI would feed myself to Aragog's children for that cup.
Well, we Hufflepuffs may feel goofy, but we look so fucking good.
ReplyDeleteWell, y'all should stop by the Ravenclaw house sometime, and we can go to the Valentine's Day feeler-up dance together!
ReplyDeleteYou're joking, right?
ReplyDeleteOr ARE you? O_O
What the HELL is a Hufflepuff?
ReplyDeleteJust kidding, I'm totes a Hufflepuff too. :)
You decide ;-)
ReplyDelete@Bree--I was really hoping someone would say that.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Katie--HOUSEMATES.
*pokes head in*
ReplyDeleteHufflepuff for the WIN!!!!
*goes back to watching Merlin on Hulu, 'cos I'm a Nerd Extreme (with pride)*
So far we've got:
ReplyDelete3 Hufflepuffs
2 Ravenclaws
2 Gryffindors
Any Slytherins out there?
Well... haha no. I don't really know my house, actually. I a lot of those quizzes annoy me because they are like
ReplyDelete"What is your favorite color"
blue,green,red, yellow
"If you saw a mugger mugging someone you would"
go and defend the muggie!, wait until the mugger is trying to get away then steal the money from him, FIND a police officer, trick question I am too smart to go to a place where muggings occur
I might as well just pick a house for myself....
*raise hand* slytherin.
ReplyDeletei aspire to be a ravenclaw, but i think my tendency to push ethical boundaries and my toolish ambition make me a slytherin.
*inches away from chubbypotato (jk jk)*
ReplyDeleteLindsay, there is this really good one on FB! You should take it and find out! Let me go find it...
haha at least you're honest!
ReplyDeleteI think this quiz is really good:
ReplyDeletehttp://apps.facebook.com/zquiz-icbkygru/index.php?take=1
I posted it on my wall, although, Lindsay, it says you already took it and you're a Ravenclaw ;-)
ReplyDeleteRavenclaw apparently.... Guess I'm joining the house party!
ReplyDeletehaha i guess i really am because I just took it again and got the same thing... A forgetful Ravenclaw? It can happen.
ReplyDeleteLoL, you know, I have no idea what I am, except I know I'm not a Hufflepuff. I am a particularly bad finder.
ReplyDelete@Jane-
I like all the ones on my favorites list, for the most part. Lol, there's, like, one on there that isn't fabulous, but I love it for sentimental reasons. I also like 'Kiss and Tell' by SunshineDaisies0821, and omg, I just realized that updated. BRB. There are others I know, but I just can't think of any off the top of my head. Sorry. It's been a long day =P.
@Kayla- HELL YES.
ReplyDelete@Jane- I second what Jules said about Kiss and Tell, but I'm the author, so you know, biased. Feel free to ignore me.
I'm not sure where I go :( I'm a mix of all the traits! Probably Slytherin because I'm extremely ambitious and shrewd. Plus, I look really good in green.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I love coming home from uni to read everyones analysis and predictions. I can't wait to do create a Harry Potter unit for my middle schoolers :)
Bree, just saw on tumblr that you finished Dr. Who season 2, and I just wanted to say I KNOW RIGHT????
ReplyDeleteSlytherin up in this bitch!
ReplyDeleteJust stopped in to say that. -candace
@Anon 11:36- Was reading through the comments and saw this, and I was thinking something along the same lines too
ReplyDeleteExcept, I doubt they'd date..maybe just become friends...but you're right. We're probably both crazy
Kelsey, HOLD. ME. Just remembering it... Oh, God :''''(
ReplyDeleteYay Gryffindor! Although I was sure I would be a Hufflepuff...I thought I gave many Hufflepuff-like answers.
ReplyDelete-Natalie
Bree: just thinking about bad wolf bay makes me depressed. Season 2 is still my fav though. Going foward though, the good news: season 3 has some of the best eps of the series (blink). Bad news: meet Martha Jones.... I'm sorry :/
ReplyDeleteJustine
You have to survive Martha to get to Donna, though =P
ReplyDeleteEr what? Wtf I LOVED Martha! WHY do people hate her? I will never understand!
ReplyDeleteI didn't actually like Rose at all, and I thought Martha was a better actress and a more relateable character with ACTUAL BRAINS (almost unheard of in DW companions!) so I never understood why people disliked Martha and loved Rose. Mind-boggling.
Donna is my favourite too! :) Even though I loved Martha and Amy too, neither of them came close to Donna :)
And yes, Blink is the best episode of Doctor Who since it came back. Those Weeping Angels gave me fucking nightmares.
^ Agree. I really liked Martha too. I loved the fact that they had a young black woman who was extremely intelligent and independant as his companion. I didn't like the fact that she fell in love with him, but I liked pretty much everything else. AND she was a very good actress.
ReplyDeleteI disagree about Rose, though - I liked her. Yes, she was a bit of a bitch, and I didn't entirely understand how practically every male she met fancied her, but she was a good character. Not the best actress - it was her first major role, after all, but she improved throughout the two series. (Although she was awful when she came back in series 4 - got to be said.) As for her not having any brains - she was a working-class girl, and so it would have been unlikely (statistically speaking) for her to go to college or university, but that didn't mean that she wasn't intelligent - I think she proved herself to be so.
I actually come from a family of Rose-haters, so I've had to defend her a lot. But I do get surprised at the Martha-hate. I've never actually met anyone who had a problem with Martha, it is only online that I encounter it and I always find it extremely strange and confusing. I don't understand what there is to dislike about her.
And agree about Donna - the best companion yet.
OH SHIT!!!! Just realised I may have spoiled something major for people who haven't got as far as season 4!!! DON'T READ ABOVE POST BREE!!
ReplyDeleteShit.
^ LOL! I think you DID ruint it though lol.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes I agreed with EVERYTHING you said. Rose was annoying and bitchy and loads of guys inexplicably fancied her (I mean wtf?), but she was still really cool, and her acting and delivery of lines got better and better. And I shipped the shit out of Ten/Rose (although not Nine/Rose - I didn't really get that so much) 'cos they had such frickin' amazing chemistry. The end of series two broke my heart, but then I became happy... at some point later on when something rather nice happened (am I giving stuff away too much there? Hope not).
And as for Martha - yes, yes, yes! I loved her. A young intelligent, sassy black woman, an amazing actress, and a really sweet, angsty, relateable character. I especially liked 'Human Nature'/'Family of Blood' - cos the acting was amazing, cos I felt so much for Martha, and cos of the interesting detail of her having to work as a maid and such back in those times (remembers the school nurse's comments about the likelihood of her being a doctor...).
The best thing about Martha was that she didn't take over the entire thing. The thing that has irritated me about every companion is that it ends up becoming entirely about them, and it seems like the Doctor is the one who is just coming along for the ride. But Martha wasn't like that - she didn't hold the key to the universe, or have her own vortex spiralling around her or some shit. She was just a normal girl. THAT was my favourite thing about her.
That's not to say that I didn't like all the others-Donna was my favourite too (I think she was everyone's favourite), and I liked Rose, and thought Amy was hilarious and adorable. But Martha was great, and I don't appreciate her being dissed.
~ Nia
Lol I love how this post started about theories of the upcoming chapter, then 'which house are you?' and then Doctor Who... Lol. Maybe I should watch it? Everyone here has good taste, y'know, if they're her in the first place... so it must be good?
ReplyDeleteAnd Sheldon Cooper watches it so it MUST be good. Hm.
...
ReplyDeleteNope. Still don't like Martha.
ALTHOUGH I like that she had a real profession. Most assistants don't. Also, she was much better when she wasn't the main assistant. The whole Martha-has-a-crush thing just dragged her down for me.
I think the actress is adorable, though, and the fact that she's on Law and Order UK with Lee Adama blows my mind.
IDK who my favorite assistant since the reboot is.
Sarah-Jane is the most fabulous of all old school Dr. Who assistants, though, IMO.
Lol anonymous! No worries! I stopped reading when you said she fell in love with him. I guessed there would be spoilers in the rest of the post.
ReplyDelete^ Yeah, that was the only think that I didn't like about Martha, the fact that she was in love with the Doctor. But honestly - I felt for her, because I was in love with him too, and I hadn't even met him or kissed him or anything. So no, can't blame her for that at all. And what's more - when she realised that it wasn't ever going to happen, she walked away. She didn't put herself through that misery forever, but stood up for herself and said 'Enough is enough.'
ReplyDeleteAnd, really, her being in love with the Doctor was just one aspect of her; everything else about her I loved. And she was a fantastic actress.
As for Rose - she wasn't as relateable or likeable as the others. She was extremely bitchy, and snogged just about every bloke who she laid eyes on. IMO there's a lot more to dislike about her than Martha, and yet people LIKE Rose and dislike Martha. I mean, wtf? I like Rose too, but I'm allowed to if I like Martha. So my rule is - you're only allowed to dislike Martha if you also dislike Rose. 'Cos if you can stand someone as irritating as Rose, it's unreasonable for you to have a problem with Martha.
Bree - that's a relief! I was feeling really bad about it. I remember once being terribly upset when my dad ruined something for me at the end of series 4, so I would have felt absolutely awful if I ruined something like that for you!
Wait, Sheldon Cooper watches Doctor Who? Are you talking about Sheldon from Big Bang Theory? What??
ReplyDeleteActually, I'm allowed to like whoever the hell I want.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpBdoNMZuo8
ReplyDeleteHaha I hate spoilers but every once in a while I see them on tumblr via pictures or quotes. Like a really long time ago when 4chan was pissed and had planned an "attack" on tumblr people were posting their final goodbyes (lulz). Someone made post that said, "And I suppose....if it's my last chance to say it...tumblr...." followed by a gif of the Doctor vanishing. So when I was watching, I knew what was gonna happen. It didn't stop me from crying.
ReplyDelete10:40: first time I watched Doctor Who with Rose I quite liked her, but occasionally when I watch the repeats on BBC3 I find her very irritating as well. I also am confused as to how people can dislike Martha when Rose was soooo much more irritating and bitchy. I mean, I still like her, but if someone was going to dislike any of the companions, it would be Rose, no? I don't get why people dislike Martha when Rose is around...
ReplyDeleteBut a lot of people DO dislike Martha... so maybe we're missing something?
LOL @ Sheldon watching Doctor Who! It just got cooler :)
~ Nia
Man, I missed the party. Anyway, just to add my two cents: I didn't mind Rose, though she was occasionally annoying. I think I only liked Martha in the context of the show, b/c there are some great episodes in season 3. And I DIED laughing in the Shakespeare one with "expelliarmus" ;) I love Donna, of course b/c she is amazing, and the Donna/Doctor relationship is my favorite!
ReplyDeleteOh, and I love Big Bang Theory too :)
"Expelliarmus!" LOL! That was an excellent.
ReplyDeleteIt deserves a clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1N9Tjdi1FM
Spoilers, btw.
ReplyDeleteCredit where credit is due--well done with the spell, Martha.
The thing is, I don't necessarily MIND bitchy characters, so saying one has to like a less bitchy character is inane. If I hated all bitchy characters, I wouldn't be able to stand Amy, but I like Amy. And I don't mind normal types either, which is why I like Donna. But MY feelings towards Martha were just meh. Part of this was that it was coming off such an emotional ending with season 2, and so then the immediate attempt to get invested in Martha failed. Part of this was just how the character strikes me for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the 'crush on the doctor' story line and how it made her not very interesting to me. When she's more assertive later on, I enjoy her more. That is my opinion; I am not "wrong" for disliking her, and there is no rule that necessitates I like her because I like Rose.
Totally agree Jules. It's also hard to like Martha when she had the most annoying relatives. Jackie looked like Mary freaking Poppins next to Martha's mom. Cut the umbilical cord already, woman!
ReplyDeleteJustine
You're not 'wrong' to dislike her, no-one was saying that. But I always want to defend Martha, cos I think that she was the most poorly written companion of the lot. I honestly think that Steven Moffat and Russell T Davies aren't very good at writing female characters - Davies got it right with Donna, but with the other three it was quite shakey, cos all of them were bitchy and unrelateable - IMO.
ReplyDeleteAnd I understand what you're saying about the unrequited love thing - we had just had a long (and, honestly rather boring) will they/won't they thing with ten and Rose, that no-one wanted to see it repeated with Martha. And that's really the main reason that people didn't like Martha. It had literally JUST happened, and Russell T Davies didn't realise just how repetetive he was being with that storyline - it was totally his fault and I think he did a bit of an injustice to Doctor Who. I could go on and on about how he's totally fucked Doctor Who up, but I won't cos I've had this debate with my family a million ttimes already - but the problems with Martha, and with Rose were that Davies doesn't have a clue how to write believable female characters.
And honestly, I agree with anonymous above - Rose was incredibly annoying. Martha-in-love with the Doctor thing was annoying as well, but as a character, and of the things she said/did, they were not annoying. But Rose entirely was.
And I think it unfair to diss Billie Piper's acting; she did well with the crap she was given.
And Justine - no-one was as annoying EVER as Jackie. She did my head in.
Geez, calm down Jules. Anon was only saying something in passing, no need to get so defensive and start an argument over it.
ReplyDeleteAgree that Russell T Davies fails at writing female characters - even with Donna there were about a million and one stereotypes. But I also think that Freema Agyeman's acting was a bit wooden - I don't think she was a bad actress, but she didn't throw herslelf into the role. Which is something Catherine Tate and Billie Piper DID do, which was why they were more popular than Martha. At least that's what I think.
I'm not trying to be offensive in any way really but I don't think anyone should be telling anyone else to "calm down" here. Since we are just dealing with words without the benefit of voice inflection, everything comes off more aggressive than what might have been meant.
ReplyDeleteAnd in Jules defense, I also raised my eyebrows when someone wrote "you're only allowed to dislike Martha if you also dislike Rose. 'Cos if you can stand someone as irritating as Rose, it's unreasonable for you to have a problem with Martha."
Personally, Martha was a lowlight of the series. The actress was stiff and the only memorable thing from her storyline, for me, was her unrequited love for the doctor. Thats it. If you loved her and thoroughly enjoyed her as a companion, then more power to you. We all have our opinions and we could talk about other loves/hates instead(ten's incredible hair, catherine tate's dead on timing, how atrocious the american accents are in 'dialeks in manhattan', etc).
Justine
and here's something I think we could all agree on.
ReplyDeleteComic Relief - Catherine Tate & David Tennant
=D
Justine
Hufflepuff!!!!!
ReplyDelete